Kinky Tapas: Psychological Kink, Dominance & More

Happier Couples

Kinky Tapas: Psychological Kink, Dominance & More

36:05

 

Luna Matatas & Marla Renee Stewart join us to offer a sneak peek into their Kinky Tapas retreat. They answer all of our questions including:

• How do I begin to explore my dominant side?
• What’s the difference between Dominance & submission versus Topping and Bottoming?
• How do I ensure safety when exploring psychological kink?
• How do I introduce a bit of kink into our existing sexual routine?
• When can pain be pleasurable?
• How can I explore genital worship and torture?

Check out the Kinky Tapas seminar in Oakland, California April 29th - May 1st. (Use code KINKMEUP to save!) Hosted in two beautiful dungeons, the event includes catering & kinky photography and explorations of a range of topics including:

Luna & Marla will take you to two dungeons in California where they’ll cover:

• Confidence and erotic creativity
• Scene Setting, Safety & Communication
• Commanding a Room
• Developing confidence and presence
• Dominant Do’s and Don’ts
• Submissive Communication Skills
• Rope Bondage
• Spanking & Other Impact Play
• Choking & Breath Play
• Sensation Play
• Genital Worship & Torture
• Strap-On Play
• Butt Play
• Fluid Fetishes
• Skills for Subs
• Common Fetishes
• Any additional fetishes that you’d like to know about!

If you're looking to add a new toy to your collection or for something that will buzz and vibrate bringing new and intense pleasure, check out our friends at We-Vibe and Womanizer. Use code DRJESS at checkout to save!

Big thanks to our sponsors AdamandEve.com — use code DRJESS to save 50% off almost any single item + get FREE gifts and free shipping. From dildos to butt plugs to lube and lingerie, they’ve got you covered.

Check out the Mind Blowing Oral: Penis or Clit video courses at HappierCouples.com. Use code PODCAST to save 25% on this comprehensive video course designed to help you perfect and learn new skills all while laughing along with Dr. Jess and her hilarious jokes.

If you have questions for the podcast, submit them here. And please be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode! You can find the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music & Stitcher!

And check out the computer-generated (unedited) transcript below:

Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Kinky Tapas: Psychological Kink, Dominance & More

Participant #1:
You're listening to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast, Sex and relationship advice you can use tonight. Welcome to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast. I'm your cohost, Brandon Denwear here with my lovely other half, Dr. Jess. Hey. Hey. How are you? I'm pretty good. I'm excited to talk kink with you. Amazing. I'm always excited, Doc kink. Do you consider yourself kinky? I do not. Okay. But do you practice kink? I think we practice, yes. I don't think that we're very kinky in comparison to maybe the people and the professionals that were around. Right. And so even though we maybe do the things that are kinky, it's not a part of our identity. Yes. Like it's something we do, but not something that we feel we are. Is that maybe and I don't know that the people that were around, maybe they do feel like it's a part of who they are, their identity. But I'm comparing it to the people that we've talked to where their kinks that they've played into or out. Sorry, have been like, I'm going to get strapped into a dental chair and play out all sorts of and have my teeth pretend to be removed and all of that. And I'm like, wow, I am not kinky at all, if that's your barometer of what's kinky. Right. And you've seen people suspended from the ceiling by their skin at Kinky Dungeons, you've seen people getting lit on fire. I've gone into one of those, like, latex coffins where they suck all the air out. But you still don't consider that kinky? Well, I mean, it's because I've observed it, and I think because I'm seeing it, I'm not the physical participant. I don't feel like I'm the one who's really kinky, I guess. Yeah, I'm kinky for watching it. But those that are actually participating makes me feel like I see myself as a bystander. So I don't think I'm kinky in comparison. I definitely feel kinky. But I'm more on the psychological King side. And I think we're going to talk about that because today we are talking about Kinky Tapas. So Kinky Tapas is a seminar retreat in Oakland coming up April 28 to May 1, where people can learn all the tricks of the trade when it comes to BDSM and kink. It's a series of seminars, and you get to practice in two beautiful Dungeons, and there's all these other things that come with it so you can really take the skills away and build them into your sex life. So it's like a workbook community membership. There's a kinky gift kit. They're even apparently going to have a photographer on site if you want to have sexy photos taken. Of course, if you don't want that, you don't have to. And Kinky Tapas is hosted by my good friends Luna Matata's and Marla Renee Stewart. They are sex educators. They are writers. They are among the most fun and knowledgeable and sparkly people I know. And they are here with us today to talk. Kink, thank you so much for being here. Marla, how are you doing today? I'm so good. Thank you so much for that wonderful intro. You're just a sparkly. So I'm really excited to be here. I love you so much. I love you both. And Luna, I'm so glad you're here. We're in the same city, but a few miles apart. Oh, yeah. Any chance to hang out with two of my favorite people in the entire world and talk about Kink is amazing. Thank you for having us. Yes. And I'm going to be trying to get to this seminar in Oakland. So you're going to take folks to two Dungeons in California. And I'm just going to read through the list of topics you're going to cover in the seminar. So confidence and erotic, creativity. Setting the scene, of course, safety and communication. How to command a room. Developing confidence and presence. The do's and don'ts of dominance. The do's and don'ts, and the communication skills of being a submissive. You're going to be covering rope bondage, which is so beautiful and sensual. Of course. Spanking and impact play. Choking and breath play. Maybe we can talk about that. Sensation play. Genital worship and genital torture. Strapons butt play. Fluid fetishes. All the different skills for playing all these different roles. You're going to go through a bunch of fetishes. And also people can just tell you what they want to learn, and you are all over it. I'm just really excited for this. And I'm going to start with the most common question that I receive from the Kinkspace for people who are new and curious, and it really relates to dominance. People want to know, okay, my partner says that they want me to be dominant in bed. So I'm curious, how do you even get started when a partner says that they want to be dominated? Luna, I'll start with you. Yeah. I love that people are so interested in this because I think that sometimes people confuse dominance with being domineering, and so they hear dominance, and they're like, Cool, I got to take over. I got to be mean. I got to be in control. And those can be qualities and characteristics of dominance, for sure. But dominance can also be nurturing and adoring and silly and playful and funny. And when people first get started, they're a little bit confused on especially the dominance, but also their submissive partners. But the dominance kind of feel, well, what do I do? What's the vibe? What's the mood? And so figuring those things out.

So if your partner says, I'm interested in dominance or you're interested in dominance, think about what you want to feel and what they want to feel. So if you want to feel like a big, powerful in charge and someone is helpless and surrendered to you, cool. But that's going to be a mismatch. If your partner is looking for someone that is a bit more cold and disciplinary or authoritative. And so you can actually start with the activities that you already like. So if you like going down on your partner, your partner likes going down on you. Try power exchange, where one person takes control and the other person relinquishes control in something that you're already familiar with and you're already good at. And so you can give each other feedback. In that way, it's a great space to start communicating around power exchange because that's where people struggle. They're quick to pick up the paddle, get the rope. But how do we talk about do you actually like this thing? Am I doing it well? Is it good for you? Am I being a good job? That kind of stuff usually comes out in the wash after a bad experience. And so it's better to kind of start with, let's just play with power. Let's see what power feels like for us. Maybe you don't know if you're nurturing or disciplinary. I love that. So you say start with the feelings you want to experience because dominance or submission. If a partner maybe wants to be dominant because they want to feel submissive, that's a pretty broad spectrum of feelings under submission, right. Is it that you want to feel helpless? Is it that you want to feel overtaken? Is it that you want to feel overwhelmed physically? Is it that you want to feel submissive emotionally? Oh, I'm going to use this as a free therapy session and talk about my thing after. I'm just making a note. I just got very excited. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. So you say start with the feelings and get really specific around that. And then you say, add it to something that you're already doing. That's so brilliant to me. And I know that both of you teach dominance. So Marla, what can you add there? Oh, my gosh. I feel like Luna pretty much said it all. My only thing to add, I would say, is thinking about the difference between, like, if you're going into Kink and BDSM, thinking about the difference between being A dominant versus being a top. Right. And I feel like we call them sort of D types or when we're thinking about power exchange, the one who's giving direction and whatnot. But there is a difference between being someone's dominant and being someone's top. And so I think for me, it's like when we were thinking about playing, that's where top and bottom come into play, whereas dominant submissive is more it's about power exchange, but it's also about the relationship as opposed, like, I don't know, a deeper, more meaningful relationship. Rather than just going into a scene and playing as top or bottom, would you mind differentiating between topping versus dominating and subbing versus bottoming? Yeah. So it's more of a play, right. So if we think about if we're going into a play party and we go in and we talk to somebody and we're like, okay, we're negotiating a scene. In the negotiation of the scene, I could say, okay, well, I want to do these things, right. I want to use my paddles and I want to choke you. How does that sound to you? And the person on the other side could be like, well, I want to be choked, but I also want to. I don't know. I also want to do something else. I don't know. I'm not very good on these scenarios. Huh? Put a finger in your butt. Put a finger in your butt. When in doubt, go there. Okay. So in negotiating, it's sort of like, okay, we're playing. So I'm playing as a top or you're playing as a bottom, right? It's not. I'm your Dom. Right? I'm your dominant. I am in charge of you. People have to ask me permission to sort of be with you. Although people generally make those assumptions when you walk into a play party. But it's not necessarily the case. Right. The person who's on the bottom can speak for themselves. They have agency to do whatever they want to do, stop the scene. Whereas somebody who's submissive is going to be looking towards the dominant as far as what's the direction, what needs to happen next. It's more of the relationship outside of the scene rather than just in that scene. And then also you could be on the bottom and could be what we call topping from the bottom. Right. So you could be the person in the, quote unquote, passive position or on the bottom, but giving direction. And so therefore, top and bottom is mostly about play rather than the actual relationship as a dominant and submissive. Okay. So it's more about activity. What you are doing, am I in the top role or the bottom? And then the other one is really more about role and that dynamic. So, for example, I could be fully tied up and my partner could be standing over me. Let's just say a flogger. I would be bottoming, but I could still be dominant in that position if, for example, that is what we had agreed to, and I would be giving the directions. For example, if that person agreed to be the sub, they could be topping but still submissive with consent with understanding to the directions that I'm giving. Exactly. You'd be like, stand behind me and flog my butt or stand behind me and flog my back. Okay, now untie this part and put it here or whatever. So, yeah, you could be giving direction and letting them know what they need to do next. Absolutely. Love it. Okay, so there's a couple of things I want to talk about. I've been thinking a lot lately. This wasn't on your list, but I know it's the type of thing you're going to cover at Kinky Tapas. I've been thinking a lot about Emotional King because I am so kinky emotionally and less so physically. And it's not that I actually don't enjoy some of the physical components of kink, and BDSM it's that I don't always make the time or the prioritization or make the energy for it, but the emotional side doesn't require as much physical preparation or exertion for me. And so I think when people think about kink, as you said, they kind of go straight to the paddle. It's interesting that Luna, in the beginning, you said talk about how you want to feel. And so my kinks around emotional kink are really in subversive emotions. Like, really enjoying the feeling of feeling inadequate, feeling unwanted, feeling jealous, feeling. That something I actually really care about in my relationship with Brandon is threatened. And I find those emotions so exhilarating. And they are so exhilarating because I think they're so far removed from reality. Like, I do feel loved and cared for and wanted. And in that space, I'm able to access this excitement. And I need excitement because we've been together a really long time, and just being with each other and having sex isn't going to be the most exciting. It doesn't matter what he does or what he looks like or what interactions we've had. It's hard to compare to the thrill of something threatening. Plus, I'm a high risk needs person, you know, an easily bored person, not a very focused person. We know all these things. So when you think about emotional kink, so oftentimes when we talk about kink, we talk about the preparatory activities, like, before you stink, you're going to rub and warm up those butt cheeks before you play in any way that could be rough. You're going to talk about what makes you feel most safe. How do you prepare on the emotional side? Because this is where I think. I don't always practice what I preach. I don't always do the preparatory as well as the after care that might be required. And I do find myself sometimes at the end, feeling emotionally really vulnerable. I actually like the space a lot. Like, I like the fear, the almost wanting to cry, the wanting to be held, the neediness, I would say not particularly needy in life. But after an experience like that, I get to feel really needy. And I love that that vulnerability feels so far away from my lived reality. So what should I be doing ahead of time? What should I be considering, perhaps, that I'm missing when it comes to emotional King? That's such a big one. I love that you shared that with us, because I think a lot of people wonder why people want to go into these dark spaces of ourselves, these darker emotions.

But if we think about it, fear is just as exciting and exhilarating as joy. Our bodies and ourselves are taking up space and expanding, whether it's joy, whether it's fear. And so that's so powerful. And you get to learn things about yourself and you get a space to process these uncomfortable feelings outside of an erotic context, in an erotic context that has safety around it. So I totally get this. I have similar fantasies where I'll masturbate to something and I'm like, oh, that was so hot. And then I'm like, wait, I'm so fucked up. There's, like, judgment around it. And for people who are submissive and they're also feminists, we find this a common kind of struggle with their acceptance of their desire. So I think what you said is such a great example for people to explore and really get a handle on what is it within these emotions that I'm attracted to that I want to feel? What do I think is the kind of pathology or story around it? And really get specific? Because I think sometimes when people say, oh, I want to feel objectified or I want to have respect or I want to feel scared or I want to feel disciplined, that is such a range. There's a continuum of that of intensity. And so I might come in and not greet you, not make eye contact, not say Hi to you and you're like, wait a minute, what's going on here? So we want to make sure that we understand what the range is of those emotions. And that just could mean talking about different aspects or different ways the fantasy could happen. Making sure that you have a ritual that starts or cues the start of the scene and then closes the scene. So that's different than after care. That's different than communication. It's really saying, especially because you two live together. Lots of people share domestic space or other responsibilities like parenting. And we want to make sure that this isn't slipping out somewhere. If I'm cooking dinner and you're like, hey, I hate you, bitch. I'm going to punch you in the neck, right? Not the time to do this. That's not turning me on. I'm just not going to like you. So having something like maybe a particular article of clothing can cue, oh, now it's time for this thing. I'm in this headspace. It can act like a totemic item where it kind of inspiring you, it's your muse to go into that space. Your partner sees it as a queue. It could also be something like lighting a candle. That special candle goes on only when we're doing this thing. And then after care is super important. The debrief afterwards. Your dominant partner probably also. I know Brandon. Brandon's an asshole. So the partner that's doing the thing can also experience discomfort. When someone wants me to be really like a bully, as a dominant that conflicts with my everyday life as a people pleaser. So I also need to be reassured at the end of the scene that, OK, this was play. You liked it. This was good. This is what I wanted. Or here's what I didn't want. Let's do this different next time. That debrief can happen right afterwards, but if you're too much in a puddle, then maybe it can happen a couple of days later. But scheduling it or making a commitment to having that conversation can provide the safety for the things that you just can't plan. And that maybe would happen even if you did plan. Stuff can go wrong or you're not sure how you experience something. Yeah, that's such a good point. Go ahead, Marla. Yeah, that's so good. I was just thinking about it. It's a total psychological kink, right? You're thinking about how to what are the ways that you need to feel? So how does this person need to approach the way that you need to feel? Right. So this idea of having a totem or having a marker symbol saying like, okay, we can start this and then end this as opposed to, I guess a lot of times I think about kink. My partner is in kinky, so it's not like we do this at home. So it's like every time I think about kinky, I go into a space. So every time I'm going into a space and I know that that part of me is activated. So thinking about that, though, or what are the ways that you can negotiate the psychological piece? So like Luna said, is it being cold?

Participant #1:
My words are escaping me right now. I totally had it and I don't. So I'm going to move on. No worries. The mind fucking. Basically, it's like, how am I going to mind fuck this person? What are the ways that I need to think about mind fucking this person? That's not necessarily physical. All the things that are psychological, how can I get the emotions out of them that I want? Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I think that to be fair, sometimes I spring these things on you and we don't have enough conversation going into it. But I have to just also say that's a really vulnerable share for me, because I'm not with you two, not with Brendan, but just to say it openly, because I do think people are like, well, what's wrong with you? You're screwed up. Why would you want to feel that way? But it's actually in the context of feeling so loved and supported. One thing I noticed for me because I MInstRE a is that there are times of the month when I desire this and there are times of the month where this would feel like abuse. Can I guess, right? I'm serious. Can I guess? Yeah. US are the times that you're feeling that you want to do it. Is it right before your period or after Ovulation? Yeah, it's usually around Ovulation. And then I feel a little more vulnerable when I'm on my period, like a little more desperate. I definitely don't feel as wanted, and so I definitely don't want to play with that. I'll play with it in my head, but I wouldn't want to play with it with Brandon. Anyhow, thank you for therapizing me and not judging me. I don't feel I need a huge explanation for why I desire things or why things excite me. I know that a lot of people do, and I think that's perfectly fine. That's why we're here. But if I had to sum it up, as I said, it's just like I feel a lot of love, and that makes my life. I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world. Honestly, knock on some wood right here. But also I like a little excitement. I like a lot of threat. That's the way I operate in every element of my life. And so finding that emotionally is so exciting. And actually, I think I would love to explore it more physically. I do remember exploring Dungeons when I was in school, but I haven't been in a gazillion years. It feels like. And so I think this is really interesting that you're going to take these folks to the Dungeons so they can actually practice some of these things. So, for example, genital worship and genital torture, you'll have more props to do that. So, for example, are there props or language or approaches we can use for genital worship? You know, there are lots of different problems. I'm thinking about, like, the last time I did this, what did I do? When I think about worship, right. So it's just really how you're setting the scene, how you're setting the mood. Maybe you have candle or if you can't do candles, lights around, but it's really using your sensuality for me, using your sensuality in that context. So how are you touching this person? Worship is sort of like, I'm adoring you. I'm filling you with what you need to hear, how you need to be touched and really just admiring you. And then the other piece of that is just the torment or torture. I know you don't really like the word torture, right? Kind of. Or is it. No, I like it. But like, Instagram doesn't. So I don't know. So then thinking about that aspect, it's sort of like then I get to play with my tools, right. So for me, as a status, it's like, I love I'm like, thank you so much. My gratitude. I'm so happy you are here in my chair. I get to worship you, and now I get to do the things that I really want to do to you. And I know you'll be happy about it because I'm happy you're happy. We're both happy. Let's make this happen. Right. And so tools I have for genital torture on vulvas and vaginas are typically like cheese spot toys or my personal favorite medical stapler. Thinking about lights, weights. Oh, my gosh, thank you. You see me doing different nails, electricity, my Violet wand, all of those different things are sort of tools that you can use on the genitals for fun. What is the medical stapler? How do you use it? So a medical stapler is a medical stapler. So instead of the staples, you know how a regular staple kind of goes in, like when you hit it, the things go in medical stapler, they go out, so they just kind of go out. And that way it's sort of like piercing in a sense. And then you have, like, has a special remover. So each person gets their own medical stapler. Like, you can't reuse it on other people or anything like that. So I staple their lips together, right, their Volvo lips. And then I might intertwine some wire or lights or I might tug on them with some weights until they're like, okay, I think I'm ready for you to stop. And then we'll release them or whatever. So it really just depends. And is it piercing the skin? Yes. And so what safety precautions do you take? You always have a first aid kit, so that's always before you negotiate this, and you always have a first aid kit. So making sure you have alcohol pads, things are clean. You're always making sure that you are able to gauze anything that's needed. But because it's a medical stapler, they Hill up pretty like they don't bleed, like, you know, grotesquely or anything like that. So generally a Pat down is usually pretty good. And they're good. Sort of like when they draw blood, I get a tiny needle. Yeah, that's it.

When I think of a medical stapler, I immediately think of very large staples, you know what I mean? So it's just when you said that I'm just envisioning these huge staples and I was going to ask the same questions. Do you Pierce the skin? So are they smaller staples? They are about the same as, like, a regular stapler. Okay. I just, in my mind, had a much bigger version. So I'm glad you're thinking about, like, a staple gun to hang up Lost Dog posters. No, it's not quite like that. I remember the first time I went to a dungeon watching some needle play. That was really interesting. People using needles to go, like, in and then out of the skin. It was actually quite clinical to me in terms of, like, I couldn't see myself being aroused by that in that scenario. Now, to be fair, we were there for an educational tour, and she was happy in the exhibitionism. I don't know that I'm as much of an exhibitionist, but it was so interesting. I saw the staples, I saw the needles. I saw the cupping. Brandon gets cupping regularly from his traditional Chinese medicine. Very much enjoying things right now. Is it like you see it? Oh, yeah, that's a serious cafe. And then I saw some people getting set on fire very safely. I actually volunteered for that, but I wasn't picked. I'm still upset about that. But all these interesting things you can do, and they had Marshalls, for example, in the area to make sure that everybody was safe because there's this fear that there are going to be injuries. And my experience is that you're far more likely to have an injury, like in your bed or in your living room or in your shower or bathtub, for sure, than at a dungeon where there are voluminous conversations around what you're going to be doing. I saw Brandon is cringing at the stable. We talked about off air, folks. We talked about Brandon's sensitive balls. So I saw him cringing at the staples. Not yucking. Someone else's Yum. Just knowing it's not his Yum. I'm not yucking. Anybody else's Yum. I'm just saying you breathe the wrong way and my balls hurt. Staples not my jam. But for those who it is amazing. No. I had a radio show listener tell me about an experience. He had his wife put a light bulb on his balls and he was experimenting with the wattage. And since some hairs and decided not to return back to it. But people do all sorts of things to their genitals to get a rush to fill a little bit of something, a little zing. I'm sure that connecting a light bulb to your balls would make you feel something. Like I said, a butterfly farts and my balls hurt. So we went far quite soon. But this session actually is kinky. Tapas is designed for beginners, so it's not like they're going to go straight to stapling. You're going to cover all of the safety, all of the wrist awarenessual, kink fundamentals, all of the breath work, all the types of impact lay that you can play with where you can kind of experiment with pain. Because let's talk actually briefly about that pain pleasure connection, because we have these similar responses in our body. So, Luna, maybe you can tell us a little bit about why pain on varying degrees, like it doesn't have to be a staple. It can be a little bit of a tap, a little bit of a smack, a little bit of playing with a gentle flogger and then all the way up. Why is pain potentially so pleasurable? Yeah. I mean, your listeners can't see the delight in Marla's face while she talks about the stapler, but it is pleasurable for people who are giving and receiving. And so the receiver is obviously getting more tangible sensations. They're going to be producing these chemical reactions in their body that are trying to soothe that pain or are very pleasurable. So things like adrenaline, things like endorphins, we're getting all this feel good swirl in us in addition to the emotional piece of, oh, my gosh, I'm surrendering to this thing and I'm getting someone to do this thing to me. And there's that connection that Marla mentioned between the relationship of some people are taking pain as part of service to their dominant or their top. Some people are taking the suffering because it feels like ritualistic in their identity as a submissive. And so I must pass these rights on of my sufficient to my dominant. And we see pain and pleasure use ritualistically in so many different histories and cultures. Our ancestors were using things to take the physical body and create sensations that allow us to transcend in our mind. And so these altered States, these sense of it doesn't necessarily mean an altered state, doesn't mean that you're not conscious, that you're not aware of what's going on. And I often describe it to my students as, you know how if you take a Benadryl, it says you shouldn't drive heavy machinery. So it's kind of like that. It's like this floaty feeling. People feel maybe a slowed sense of time. They might feel giggles, they might feel a release, they might cry. And these are also things that can add sensation to the body and connection between partners. I think that I love hearing what you are all into as well, because there's so many themes that aren't really easily put into boxes. So people that like torment or torture or pain, they aren't always coming at it from like a mean, I want to hurt you kind of thing. I'm a status, too. And I describe myself. I think, Marley, you do too, is like a sensual status. So I want to hurt you so that I can kiss it better. So I see the torment, the fact that you're allowing me to do this as I'm worshiping you. I sometimes scream when people react to the pain that I'm giving them. So the first time I did cock and ball torture, someone was like, go a little bit harder. And I went a little bit harder. They screened, I screamed. I was like, I'm done.

I'm not actually really that into the reactions of pain, but the fact that I found the button on my submissive that I can push and it puddles them out into their little Subby space, great. I don't really care what the vessel is as long as it's within my boundaries. And I'm getting more of an intellectual erotic pantywetting from it. I'm like, damn, how powerful am I? Look at this person surrendered to me. And so there's all these complex things that go around it. And if you think about even massages, those deep, like in your fascia hurt, you kind of massages versus, like a Swedish massage. And so both are going to be relaxing the body in different ways, but some people prefer one to the other. That's actually a really great point because I love when a massage hurts, and I do like a little bit of pain and sex. I think that what I find at least, and I'm sure for many people is that if you can get to a level of arousal, the pain feels like something entirely different. Right? So we know that oxytocin and adrenaline and endorphins flood the body. We know that right before orgasms, your pain thresholds are actually doubled. And so you start to experience pain and you start to experience fear, and you start to experience disgust. And we have data to show this in very different ways. Right. So the power of arousal, the power of eroticism is really this incredible natural high. And I think that I don't know, I think everyone should have the opportunity to explore a little bit of kink, a little bit of BDSM. And I know that was your motivation for putting on kinky tapas for newbies. Right. So it's not necessarily, listen, if you're experienced, you can absolutely show up, too. But for people who want to explore this for the first time and then think about, okay, so how do I integrate this into my life? How do I just kind of spice up my sex life? Because I think there are so many of us who are thinking, like, there has to be more, there has to be more to explore. And the range of kink is so broad. And that's why I started with my own story, which I know is also a little extreme. Like, I get that when people play with psychological kink, they don't go straight to being debased. But even like jealousy, I think jealousy is a really good example where people have probably experienced some sort of arousal or at least excitement or passion tied to jealousy. And sometimes that has been experienced in a not so healthy way. And so you're here to help them kind of move it into this potentially healthy. When I say healthy, I obviously want to acknowledge that it's different for everybody, but into a space that feels safer and more fulfilling, one that's really supportive. And I assume that both singles and couples can come to this event. Marla? Yes, absolutely. Anybody can come. We are open to everyone. We say we are BIPOC centered, but everybody can be there. Awesome. So Kinky Tapas seminar retreat in Oakland coming up at the end of April, where can people get more information? Kinky tapas.com,

Participant #1:
like the food. I love it. Did we miss anything because there were all these different topics? Is there anything you want to add, Marla? No, I don't think so. I think we said everything. Can you top us? Make sure if you want to get $200 off, put the code kink me up, and we'll give you $200 off for coming. But I'm excited about the Dungeons. They're beautiful. They're booked. I'm really excited just to be somewhere. And so somewhere where I can hug Luna because we haven't seen each other in person in a long time. So it'll be nice. Amazing. And the Dungeons will be your private space throughout the course of the event. I think that's a really great place for people to start rather than necessarily going to a public event, an event that they know is space. And if they have any questions, I'll make sure that I'm linking, obviously, the kinky tapas website, And I'll put in that code kink me up for people to save. But also, I'll leave your handles Because if people have any fears or concerns or hesitations, Definitely reach out to Luna or Marla Or feel free to reach out to me as well. And I'll do my best to answer. So I'm excited for you both. Kinky tapas again, Oakland, April 28. And that's going to be a good one, and obviously you're both brilliant, and this is just like a quick 20 minutes chat about these conversations, but this is going to be a whole day and beyond events, So there's so much opportunity for learning. So thank you so much for showing up to tell us all about it and share your knowledge. A lot of good insights here. Oh, my God. Come with us. Come with us. I know. I'm trying. If there's a seven, eight, seven to Oakland, I'll strongly consider it. Okay, I heard. Yes. All right. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you so much for listening and chatting, Babe. That was a great conversation. It was. And I think for anybody who's interested in attending that kinky tapas seminar that weekend, you probably couldn't have two better people to lead you through, whether it's your beginning or halfway or deeply engrossed into the environment that kink setting. There's just so much levity, so much laughter, So much comfort that both Marla and Luna bring to the table that I don't think you could be in better hands. Yeah. And kindness and warmth. People may not know this. Marla is like my idol. I just want to be like Marla. She's just so comfortable in her skin and kind, but also firm and people really like her, Even though she has no problem setting boundaries. Luna and I often joke we want to be like Marla when we grow up. I just have to laugh. I hear the stories from Luna Talking about her experiences, and there's no anxiety there. Like, if she was taking me to a dungeon for the first time, I'd be like, awesome. I'm going with my friend Luna to a dungeon, and she's going to be my Guardian Angel. All right, you know what? You should go then. Okay. To that weekend. Yeah, you can go do some learning. I probably should. It'd be fun. We could go together. We never do those types of things together. I go and do it for work, and then you come and observe and all right, we're going to talk about this offer and leave it at that. Folks, wherever you're at, we hope you are having a great one and exploring all of your kinks, Everything from the vanilla to the you're listening to the sex with Dr. Jess podcasts improve your sex life. Improve your life.